Posted tagged ‘handplaning’

Planing big slabs

July 15, 2012

My friend Charlie just dropped off a couple nice big slabs of walnut.  The original intention was to cut them into heavy veneer and squares for legs.  But one of them was was just dead straight and I immediately knew that I had something else in mind for this particular piece.

Big slabs seem to pose problems for many woodworkers.  They’re hard to move around.  They’re usually too heavy or too large to run through planers and sanders.  But for the folks that understand how to “walk” a board and use handplanes, big slabs can be handled with relative ease.

The first thing is to get one side in plane.  This becomes the datum, the surface from which all other dimensions are taken.  Using a set of winding sticks, the rough surface is checked for wind, cup or bow and imperfections in sawing.  Those areas are marked.


Rough planing is done with a long plane with substantial camber in the iron.  My favorite plane for this part of the process is a 20″ wooden foreplane.  Planing is usually done at about 45 degrees to the grain direction of the workpiece, although many times I find that I’m planing cross grain.  The heavy camber of the iron allows for large shavings to be taken without an irordinate amount of edge tearout.

After the datum surface is in plane, a smooth plane is used to remove the wide, shallow “scallops” left by the foreplane and render the datum dead flat.  Then the slab is flipped and the required thickness is measured and marked with a cutting or panel gauge.  Again the foreplane if used to produce a plane second surface, parallel to the datum.  If a large amount of material must be removed from certain areas, a scrub plane can be used.  The scrub plane has a narrower iron with greater camber than the foreplane.  This enables the plane to take very thick, narrow shavings and speeds the work of stock removal.  The foreplane can then be used to remove the deep grooves created by the scrub plane.

Trueness in length can be checked by a straightedge or the winding sticks can be laid flat at both ends of the slab and a line can be stretched across them. Any variance will be quickly determined by simply measuring at points along the line to the surface of the slab. And remember that the human eye is a very precise instrument.

Only time will tell what this slab will become.

Get to know your local sawyer

July 14, 2012

Most folks go to the lumber yard and pick up their project material.  I prefer to go right to the source, the sawyer.

“Eyeballing” the cut line. Mr. Sharples at work.

I’ve been dealing with my local sawyer, Dennis Sharples, for about a decade now.  I’ve spent a lot of time out in his log yard and rooting through stacks of lumber for just the right stock.   But a couple of days ago I made another trip out to Sharples Hardwood Lumber in Swanton Ohio.  Unlike most days when I’m in a rush and just want to load up and get back to the shop, I had no particular schedule.  Dennis was out in the yard running the mill.  So I just sat myself down on a stack of freshly sawn honey locust boards and quietly watched while he systematically sawed a log into a cant, then sawed the cant into lumber.  All done with a quiet precision that comes from years spent at his trade.  It’s intriquing to watch the mechanical manipulation of the mill machinery to turn, locate and dog down the log.  Then the saw starts its trip down the track and slices to the log like a knife through hot butter.

But apart from roaming around in the log yard, there are a number of very good reasons to get to know your local sawyer.  First you can select the material you want at the source.  You can actually see the lumber you’ll be buying while it’s still “in the log”.  You can buy the lumber in any state you wish; sawn, dried and planed if you like.  Or green, for those folks who work with riven lumber such as chairmakers and early American furniture builders.  Also you’ll find species that won’t normally be stocked at your local big box store.  When’s the last time you saw Sassafrass or Honey Locust at Home Depot or Lowes?

So get to know your local sawyer.  It’ll be time well spent.

Why can’t I get Dad’s bench plane to work?

May 19, 2012

I can’t count the number of times I have been asked by friends, acquaintances and customers to examine a bench plane that “just won’t work”.  Typically, one of two statements follows the request:  “I remember my Dad using this plane for years.  I just got it out of the box in the basement, sharpened up the blade on the grinder, polished it, but it just won’t cut right.” or; “Dad never could get this thing to work, even after he’d sharpened it on the grinder.  He said it was cheap and that he had just bought it to trim a door that was sticking.  He put it in a box in the basement and wound up buying a belt sander to do the job.” 

More often than not, I find that “someone” has ground the primary bevel at an angle greater than the bedding angle of the plane.  While you can get away with this on a block plane (bevel up), it just won’t work on a bench plane (bevel down).  When the primary bevel angle is equal to or higher than the bedding angle, the iron can never be engaged in the cut.  So, the plane “skitters” along the surface.  The user will often set the iron “deeper”, only to find the plane binds completely.

There have been occasions when folks have presented me with a bench plane whose iron appears to have been ground with an acceptable primary bevel. But upon closer inspection, it appears that “someone” honed a secondary bevel that was so high as to eliminate an adequate amount of clearance.  Adequate clearance is generally thought to be a minimum of 12 degrees.

The next time someone tells you that his (or her) Dad’s bench plane just won’t work, check the angles, all of the angles.

The way Gramps sharpened his plane irons

February 15, 2012

Seventy-five years ago most handtool woodworkers were professional carpenters, joiners, millwrights and millmen.  They depended on their tools to make a living.  They were paid on the basis of their productivity.  They knew how to sharpen their tools to maximize their productivity and they knew how to do it fast.

Now, most handtool afficinados are very dedicated amateurs (or recognized artisans with clienteles that are willing to pay for “toolmarks”).  This group of handtool users has the luxury of time, time to fettle their tools “in absurdia”.

Matt Sullenbrand, frequent visitor to this site and provider of wise observation, sent this recent comment;

“I have purchased lots of old planes over the years, and started out flattening the backs on all of them. Then I realized, if none of the craftsman who owned these planes worried about flat backs, why should I? I am not convinced that flat backs on plane irons were ever necessary. It seems more likely and more expedient that it was the norm to use a back bevel on almost all irons, save maybe profiled plane irons which would have been very difficult to back bevel. Just a thought.”

After reading Matt’s comments, I began to think about how my Grandfather taught me to sharpen a plane iron.  First, you have to remember that not all planes are used for “polishing”.  Most, are used for sizing and truing.  So, fifty-four years ago, Gramps taught me to sharpen plane irons like this.

First, make sure that the iron is ground to the purpose it was intended.  Here’s a number 6 iron that’s ground with a substantial crown.  Remember that a 6 is a foreplane.  It’s the plane that “strikes” the first datum or register, from which all other dimensions are taken.  So we get the “grind” right:

Then we “run” the iron in a “figure eight” motion on a hard arkansas stone.  Just as soon as we raise a “wire”, we strike it off by moving the iron laterally, while just raising the heel of the iron “ever so slightly” off the hone.

Then we move to a hard black arkansas stone.  We repeat the same “figure eight” motion, raise the wire, and, again, strike it away.  We don’t go to the strop.  The iron is razor sharp at this point.  The honed, secondary bevel in very small, which means we’re not wasting valuable tool steel.

We reassemble the iron and the chipbreaker and begin to work.  I mean, how many angels can sit on the head of a pin?

If I could have just one bench plane…….

August 27, 2011

On more than one occasion, I’ve been asked by fledgling hand plane afficionados, what type of bench plane  would I choose, if I could  have only one?  The answer is really very simple, a Bedrock style 605 1/2.  The 605 1/2 is not an easy plane to find, if you’re looking for a good original Stanley.  But they’re well worth the high dollar that you’ll likely have to pay to take it home.  If a 605 1/2 isn’t available, a 605 (or one of the new planes that emulate the Bedrock) is a decent alternative.

An orignal Stanley Bedrock 605 1/2

So what is it about this plane that makes it so useful?  First is the frog design.  It allows the user to adjust the mouth opening while the iron is in place on the frog.  The Bailey pattern requires the removal of the iron before the frog can be loosened to allow for adjustment.  This makes for a lot of fettling to get the mouth opening “just right”.  The second is it’s length and width.  It is 1″ longer and 1/4″ wider than the standard 605 (60 indicates the Bedrock type frog, 5 indicates jack plane).  It could correctly be classed as a panel plane by English standards.  But how does this extra size translate into performance?  The extra length allows the user to do smaller joining tasks and surface truing (i.e. panel leveling, hence the term panel plane).  The extra width clearly puts it in the class of a large smoother.

The Lie-Nielsen 605 1/2

Different irons for different tasks.  To fully exploit the potential of any jackplane, several different irons are required.  For dimensioning/thicknessing, an iron with a 1/16″ to 3/32″ crown is appropriate.  This is the crown that would be commonly used on a “foreplane”.

For general smoothing, an iron that is “gently” crowned (think .003″ to .005″) is the order of the day.  When this iron is properly sharpened and honed, it will produce a glass-like surface.  For highly figured work, an iron that is “gently” crowned and back beveled to create a cutting angle of 60 to 65 degrees will produce a surface that is free of tearout, i.e. curly maple.  (Lie-Nielsen offers several different frogs with bedding angles ranging from 50 degrees, “York” pitch, to 55 degrees “Middle” pitch)

Lee Valley jack plane - tote and frog move fore and aft as a unit - lateral and depth adjustment are made via a "Norris" type adjuster

For really gnarly wood such as burl or crotch, the handplane user might consider a toothing iron.  While not commonly available for bench planes, one could be made by simply filing or chiseling teeth (grooves) on the bevel side of the iron.  The iron is then reversed.  This reversal creates a cutting angle of 70-75 degrees, which is the traditional standard for toothing planes.  Just a caveat – not all bench plane designs will allow for running the iron reversed.  The relationship of the chip breaker to the depth control pawl will be the dictating factor.  So try it before you go to the bother of making a toothing iron.

The Woodriver #5 from Woodcraft

So, one plane, three or four irons and you’ve covered 95 percent of your benchplane chores.  Plus, you’ll save space and, very likely, a fair amount of money. 

Just a parting thought about replacement irons.  Woodcraft, Lie-Nielsen, Lee Valley and others sell high quality replacement irons for original Stanley planes.  IBC irons from Woodcraft are my personal favorites.  Be sure that the irons you order are designed to allow for the use of the original chip breaker, or you may find that you’ll have to purchase a new breaker as well.

Making Wooden Screws

July 1, 2011

Well, I decided that the Little Underhill Bench needed to outfitted with two, not just one, but two wooden screw vises.  I thought about buying a couple of screws and nuts from Lake Erie Toolworks.  That would have cost me $300, give or take a little.  But then I thought, how hard can it be?  Plus I’m a guy who loves the process and the history of woodworking, I’m “semi” retired, so why not make them myself?  That’s how it started…

I went to my bookcase, pulled out the “Woodwright’s Workbook”, in which Mr. Underhill discusses making your own screws at considerable length.  Then I pulled out “Woodturning Techniques”, by Mike Darlow.  His presentation is even more in depth than Roy’s.  Hey, these guys are heavy hitters and between the two I found all of the information I needed to get started.

I decided to make a number of 2 1/2″ diameter, 1/2″ pitch screws.  The first task was to layout and hand carve the master screw which is used in building the “Big Tap”.  I have found out that tapping the nuts is the more difficult of the two tasks (threading the screw, tapping the nuts) and I decided to make a tapping “machine” as shown in the Underhill text (one from the Williamsburg Collection).

Master screw on the lathe, just carved and cleaned up with a triangular file

 The major diameter of the screw is 2 1/2″.  The minor diameter is 1 5/8″.  Note that I’ve stripped the threads from about the first 8″ of the screw.  That section will be inserted through the nut bland, then into the left support.  Also a 60 degree V cutter will be inserted (held in place by an insert and set screw) about 4″ from the left end.

Filed and sanded to create slightly truncated threads which will be more durable.

 The major diameter of the screw is 2 1/2″.  The minor or “root” diameter is 1 5/8″.  Note that the threads have been removed from the left section of the screw, approximately 8″ from the end.  This portion will be inserted through the nut blank, then positioned into the left support to maintain position during the tapping process.
The parallel surfaces of the right support will be cut and angled at about 5 degrees, the pitch angle of the screw.  My original plan was to use two “lunettes”.  However, I opted for a single 1/4″ brass bar to use as a temporary nut.  The left hand support is temporary and will be replace with the first “nut” made on the “machine”.

Right support showing temporary "lunette" and angled surface to match pitch. Note the abundance of paste wax. Trust me, use a lot of wax or oil

Think I’ll make another “simple machine” for threading the screws.  Carving them is great therapy,
but one of these days I’ve gotta get this bench done and on to other projects.
I’ll keep you informed…

Dedicated No. 4 1/2

August 18, 2010

left: The Dedicated 4 1/2 - probably a type 17 - right: a type 11 No. 4 1/2 fitted with a new cryo blade

The 4 1/2 on the left in the above picture came into my possession several years ago.  My guess is that the main casting is a type 17.  It is noticeably heavier than the type 11 on the right.  It’s hard to understand why a wartime casting would be heavier as the US was looking for metals for armaments.  Some folks have speculated that Stanley was beginning to “feel the heat” as American GI’s came in contact with the classic British infill planes built by makers like Norris and Spiers.  But, the truth is we will probably never know the real reason. 

In any event, I decided to dedicate this baby to the sole purpose of smoothing highly figured wood, as in everyone’s favorite, curly maple.  Anyone who has ever tried to plane a piece of curly maple knows that it is about as tough as it gets.  First and foremost, a cutting angle of 45 degrees simply won’t get the job done.  So in order to raise the cutting angle, I decided to back bevel the iron by 17 degrees (give or take a degree).  This puts the actual cutting angle up to 62 degrees, which is about as high as can be achieved before incredible “chatter” sets in, due to the thin section of the Stanley iron and chip breaker. 

17 degree back bevel

The next step was to ensure that, while taking the thinnest possible shavings, the plane left no “tracks”.  So, the main bevel of the iron was gently crowned.  I’m “guesstimating” that the crown is something like .0015″.  If I were more of a scientific woodworker, I would have measured it.  But with me, most of the time, the right brain wins. 

The iron, "gently" crowned

Then it’s time to put the chip breaker back in place.  But wait!  Throw out the old notion that the chip breaker should be as close to the cutting edge as possible (sorry Gramps).  The back bevel disallows this.  Plus, since we’ve raised the cutting angle, we’ve effectively rendered the chip breaker useless, as far as “breaking” chips.  It does, however, still add mass, helping to minimize vibration. 

chip breaker set well back from cutting edge; 1/16-3/32"

The frog has been moved forward to create a mouth opening that is not more than 1/32″.  This minimum mouth opening is what, in fact, “breaks” the chip. 

Minimum mouth opening - a gnat couldn't crawl through it

It becomes immediately obvious that raising the cutting angle increases the amount of energy required to do the work.  This was one of the facts in my decision to dedicate this one plane to smooth high figure stock.  It won’t be much good for walnut or pine, but it will produce the beautiful, glassy surface that can only be obtained by sheer cutting. 

the objective - a highly reflective, glassy smooth surface on curly stock

“The ole’ high angle plane trick” or UNE SECRET DU METIER

January 8, 2010

More than once in my youth I was reminded that “a tradesman gets paid for what he knows, and if a tradesman tells everyone the secrets of his trade, people won’t need to employ him”. 

Trade Secrets.  Les secrets du metier.  The arcane minutia.  Things that you only share amongst brothers in craft.

The bad news is that many of those secrets have been misplaced, not lost, just misplaced.  The good news is that in the age of information we’re living in, there’s more arcanery being shared than ever before.  And, hopefully, everyone will be the beneficiary.

I recently watched an episode of Underhill’s Woodwright’s Shop with Brian Boggs.  During the course of the show, Roy commented on a spokeshave that Brian had modified for working figured or otherwise “gnarly” wood.  It was a concave shave.  Brian had simply turned the iron over and placed the bevel up.   But…here’s the secret, he had turned a small burr on the edge.  Most people associate “burr” with scraper.  But remember the definition of a scraping tool is a cutting edge that is unsupported (or minimally supported).  In the case of Brian’s secret spokeshave, he has actually created a “high angle” sheering tool.  Here’s the geometry that makes it work:

By simply turning the iron over and positioning the bevel “up”, we’ve increased the effective cutting angle to 70 degrees.  Now, it’s a pretty well accepted notion that a cutting angle (or “attack angle”, si vous prefere’) of 62 degrees, or so, is ideal for sheer cutting figured wood.  So, it should go without saying that, we have to reduce the angle by 8 degrees, give or take a skoch.  The quickest way to do is by turning a burr of 8 degrees, or so.  (By turning a burr, we can maintain the ground angle on the iron at 25 degrees, giving us a reasonably strong section.

“The ‘right way’ to do anything is the way that works best for you”

So here’s what happens when we put all this scientific thinking into play:

The "trick" spoke shave rounding out some pretty curly maple. No tear-out whatsoever. Send me some of those Queen Ann legs.

Looking down the throat of the "trick". Bevel clearly positioned on the top with the slightest of hooks visible (if your eyes are exceptional)

 Well, we know it works on rounded surfaces, so how does it do on the flat?  Let’s see:

Iron from Union transitional smoother. Breaker has been re-positioned, putting the iron in a "bevel-up" condition.

Okay, here’s the really interesting point here.  This lil’ ole’ Union plane has been sitting on the shelf for a couple of years.  The iron hasn’t been sharpened in the same amount of time.  I DID NOT turn a hook (burr) on the blade, so when assembled it will have an effective cutting angle of something HIGHER than 70 degrees.  Transitional planes are notorious “chatterers”.  Yet the picture below says it all.  Same piece of curly maple and the only blemish on the “complexion” of this board is where the worms decided to take up residence.

Smooth as silk - the worms just love it!

 So, there it is, another mystery uncovered and another item for your ever growing “bag-o-tricks”.  But remember, all tricks take a little time to master, so don’t get discouraged if it doesn’t give you “masterpiece” results the first time that you pull it out of your bag.  You gotta work a little to make it “your own”.

The next time you pick up an old plane and see the bevel pointed skyward, you’re gonna have to ask yourself “did the dealer just not know how this thing was supposed to go together or have I got a tool that was once held in the hands of a ‘master'”?

And always remember “It’s a poor workman who blames his tools – Gramps”.

The Shape of Bench Plane Irons (the truth revealed)

December 27, 2009

The modern woodworking community seems to be obsessed with jigs and fixtures and that’s probably a good thing.  Accuracy of construction has continued to improve over the millenia.  But, as with so many things in life,  there are occasions when “less is more”.  The wholesale use of sharpening jigs may well be one of these things.  True, they do assist the sharpener in creating perfectly flat surfaces and the intersection of two perfectly flat surfaces, forming a perfect angle, is, certainly, the classic definition of “sharpness”.  They also make it simpler to create a perfectly straight edge which is square to the length of the iron.  And “straight and square” are absolutely necessary when sharpening irons for tools like rabbet and shoulder planes (and most chisels).  But when dealing with the class of tools known as bench planes, straight and square is not always the most advantageous condition.

Rabbet, shoulder, molding and other types of specialty planes are used to create structual or ornamental details and, in some cases, used to remove miniscule amounts of material in situations like the final fitting process.  Bench planes are used to create true and finished surfaces to a given dimension.  As this process may require the removal of significant amounts of material, the use of tools that have been “fettled” to remove very small amounts of material with a high level of accuracy may not provide optimal productivity.  In other words, when you’re “rough” planing a board to dimension, you probably want to do as quickly as possible – especially if you’re getting paid by the job, not by the hour. 

Roman Jack plane found in Pompei excavations - "shod" in wrought iron on both sole and top of body - single iron

Planes, as we know them, have been in use for several thousand years.  When looking at the irons of antique planes, modern woodworkers are often struck by the fact that most of them are not “straight across”.  In fact many have a significant arc to the cutting edge.  The exceptions are usually smoothing, panel and jointer planes.

Try planes (called fore planes in North America), scrub planes and jack planes are tools used to establish the “A” or primary data (a reference surface from which other angles and measurements are based) and/or dimensions.  The surface condition left by these planes looks and feels “wavy”, to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the width of the iron and the arc height of the crown (curve of the cutting edge).  Most hand built antique furniture will have unseen surfaces that are, in most cases, left in this condition.

Working with a set of winding sticks, the craftsman will determine whether the first surface to be trued has any cup, warp or twist that must be dealt with.  Affected areas will be marked and trimmed with the Try or Scrub plane.  After the “A” data has been planed flat and true, the craftsman will use a thickness marking gauge and mark the required dimension.  If the amount to be removed is minimal, the craftsman may elect to plane the “B” data to thickness with the Try plane (as it takes wider cuts than the other crowned planes).  However if there is a fair amount of stock to be removed, a Scrub plane will be employed.  When using any crowned (radiused) plane, the craftsman will move the plane diagonally or completely cross grain, as a heavily radiused plane can lift and tear fiber bundles and create voids in the surface that are below the desired elevation.

The radiuses employed are determined by the experience of the individual craftsman.  The type of work, material and its condition, are just a few factors that must be considered when “fettling” planes.  The goal, of course, is to achieve a product of acceptable quality with the minimum output of energy.  Radiuses are described in terms of arc heighth and they may range from as little as a 64th to as much as a 1/4″.  Again, only the user can determine what works best for him.  Below is a comparison of  typical radiuses found on older “working” handplanes (those used by professional woodworkers).

Typical plane iron radiuses

 We’ll talk more about how to properly sharpen a radiused iron and the proper sequence of planing stock in upcoming installments. 

Remember, making shavings is cheap therapy.

Handtools – the joy of using them

August 31, 2009

Handtools are slow.  Handtools need to be sharpened frequently.  Handtools, in amateur hands, are inaccurate at best, incredibly frustrating and potentially incomprehesible, at worse.  Horsepower, horsepower is the answer, isn’t it?


A 26" Jointer - 100 years old and "as good as new"

Fifty years ago, everyone (who went to public school) was introduced to the use of handtools.  Of course trademen were using power tools in order to make work easier and boost profitability.  And there was enough of the old apprentice system in place that many of us used handtools on a daily basis.  My Grandfather was insistent that I learn the trade with handtools.  He believed that mastery of handtools would make any tradesman better and I agree with him completely. 

Over the years, I’ve recognized several other distinct advantages that come from using handtools. 

First, handtools (specifically handsaws, planes and scrapers) generate considerably less dust than their motorized counterparts.  There is, of course, the benefit of not coating everything in you shop with a layer of fine dust that takes up precious time to remove.  And in recent years, medical scientists have demonstrated that wood dust can be responsible for a number of serious health problems.

Second, using handtools to dimension and shape lumber typically offers better yield than power tools.  Snipe is not a factor when using handplanes and scrapers.  One should note that it isn’t uncommon to loose as much as six (6) linear inches to snipe on a planer.  If you’re planing a twelve inch wide board you’ve just added one half of a board foot to your lumber requirement.  This isn’t a catastrophe is you’re planing red oak or ash, but if you’re planing old growth mahogany or fiddleback maple, it could get to be rather expersive in short order.  Handtools may enable us to use wood that would be considered too difficult to work with power tools due to “high figure”.

Third, Quiet!  No, not be quiet.  Listen to the quiet.  I like to hear what’s going on when I’m working.  As a consequence, I may not be as careful about hearing protection when operating power tools, as I should be.  Hearing loss is a large problem amongst woodworkers.  Stand next to a planer, shaper, large joiner or any number of other bits of woodworking machinery for several minutes and it becomes evident that many power tools excede the recommendations for safe noise levels.  Many of us live in urban areas where neighborly consideration may require operation of power tools to be limited to certain hours.  Using handtools can actually lengthen your workday (something that I no longer attempt to do).

Four, Skill.  Simply put, using handtools successfully requires more skill.  For me this is the most important reason to use tools without plugs.  I achieve my very best work with handtools.  Carve a “ball and claw” foot or an acanthus leaf  – gotta use handtools.  Shape the rear posts on a bentwood chair- gotta use’ em.  Do I need to belabor this point?  I don’t think so.  And we all know that if a woodworker wants to be recognized as “worth his salt”, he better know how to cut dovetails by hand.  (See my earlier article for a contrarian point of view.)

I finish a project.  I’ve worked hard and recieve compliments for my efforts.  I thank both the unitiated and those who know and love the mysteries of the craft.  And then, disinterested, I walk away from the completed thing, the manifestation of my creativity.  It is the process I love, not the product.  I’m in good company.  Proponents of the craft like Roy Underhill and Peter Follansbee have demonstrated to nationwide audiences that handtool use retains its importance to all of us who seek to maintain the highest levels of workmanship.

I polish up the iron of a long jointer and clamp up a bit in the vise.  Drop in the iron, tap the wedge, a few lateral adjustments and the plane is ready.  Straight ahead, not down.  The iron is sharp and produces a shaving that rolls out of the throat in a tight curly-kew.  I straighten out the shaving.  It is the thickness of onion skin and in this shaving I can read much of the history of the tree that gave me this board.  Another stroke and the “whisk” of the plane.  I am surrounded by those who before were entrusted with the gifts that they have passed to me.

There is no plug here, no circuit breaker.  The power source is deep within us, the harmony of the universe around us.  This is the joy, the Zen, the moment of being one with all that you have been given, all that you have learned and all that you know.  This is reason enough.

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